*Merged Thread on SB477* - Virginia Ban on Exotic Animals

NOTE from Moderator: We had four threads on the same topic (State of Virginia proposed ban on exotic animals, SB477), the four threads have been merged into this one thread. There is still another thread discussing the federal ban, which has not been merged because it is a different law (and topic).




Received an email from someone in the loop:

"The Virginia Humane Society and Richmond SPCA are supporting a bill that would address "dangerous" wild animals being kept as pets or in unqualified facilities. DGIF and other agencies and groups have been having recent meetings and this bill is coming out all because of "knee jerk" reactions to the recent incident in Ohio with the man who released all or most of his exotic animals and killed himself. You may want to keep an eye out and write to or contact (personally) your legislative representatives in the state about this subject. I don't think a finalized bill is out there yet for me to send you a copy, but I know at least one draft I saw simply listed the entire families or groups of pythons, boas, and cobras. Supporters are trying to say that these animals hurt and kill too many people and children (What?!?! Facts? Stats?) They are also trying to compare this to the situation in southernmost Florida, where these animals are indeed invasive species. But their ignorance is preventing them from intelligently stating that VA is NOT tropical like this portion of Florida where these species CAN survive. These species CAN NOT survive in Virginia's climate in order to be any kind of threat to native wildlife populations."

VA Humane Society radio interview (stupid comments on Burmese Pythons)
http://www.1140wrva.com/player/?station=WRVA-AM&program_name=podcast&program_id=RMNPodcasts.xml&mid=21722947

I can't STAND these people. They have no right taking away our right to own these animals, ESPECIALLY if their reasons for proposing such regulations or bans is based on the idea these animals will get out and form wild populations and endanger the wildlife or the public.

I'm getting really tired of all this "ban exotics!" bull crap! We need to fight this before it gains any ground. Who do we contact about this? (I'm about as knowledgable about our representatives and government people as as two year olds are about algebra)

It pretty sad that this agenda can be pushed (perhaps into law) without any supporting data.

jw wrote:

It pretty sad that this agenda can be pushed (perhaps into law) without any supporting data.

Seriously!!

I don't even have words for this other than

NOTE: We had three threads on the same topic (State of Virginia proposed ban on exotic animals, SB477), the three threads have been merged into this one thread. There is still another thread discussing the federal ban, which has not been merged because it is a different law (and topic).


This needs to stop

http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?121+ful+SB477

Sounds like we need to start making phone calls and sending out letters.

This would even ban my Bengal cat, which is a hybrid of a leopard and a domestic cat. What is so insulting is that this stupid proposed law would allow police to enter your home and confiscate your property, with probable cause of course. This is outrageous.

saw this earlier. usark has a link on their fb site that allows you to send letters to the president and our local senators and congressmen. sent mine today. i think its on their homepage as well. it also allows a hand delivered option to have them deliver hardcopy to the same reps. if u guys arent already you should check em out. they're the closest thing we have to allies in this moronic war on reptiles.

They are absolutely ridiculous....

I wonder what Outback Reptiles is doing about this?

I sent out emails through their website. I would print out copies but I do not have access to a printer anymore.

This has got to stop though. They have no right to ban these animals.

The proposed regulations and bans on certain types of snakes has me, to say the least, a little pissed. One of the listed snakes is Boa Constrictor. They don't mention a specific species, but leave it open like that to cover literally all boas.

Now, if this thing passes, we will not be allowed to purchase, sell, or breed boas. If you owned boas before the effective date, they are grandfathered in as long as you meet certain criteria.

Now, there are several boa species I wanted to begin breeding in the near future and now this may be ruined by this new regulation. IF this passes, I will no longer be allowed to purchase boas or technically breed them.

So I was thinking on this last night and talked to my husband a bit. IF this thing passes, I need to grab up any boas that I'm looking to keep/breed before the effective date of this regulation so they would be grandfathered in.

Of course, we need to fight this, but there is always the what IF it passes. I want to be able to keep more boas than just the girl I have now.

Anyone else thinking about doing something like this so the animals get grandfathered in?

If this Bill passes, you won't be able to breed boas even if you buy them before effective date. We need to get involved in fighting this Bill and we need to start soon.

everyone is talking about fighting this bill, but does anyone have any ideas how to actually do just that. Can we get a petition going where we get so many signatures and get all the people we can. Go to the pet shops and and catch anyone enthusiastic for reptiles. We could get people at the shows and anywhere herp lovers gather

Best thing we can do now is send letters, emails, and make phone calls to our legislators. You can find yours at this link:

http://conview.state.va.us/whosmy.nsf/main?openform



Letters will hold more weight than calls or emails, or even better set up an appointment for a face to face meeting to express concerns about this Bill. It's important to remember to stay claim and use facts to back up you concerns. Get your family and friends in on helping with letters and phone calls.



Call, send emails and letters everyday. Not only once!



Support USARK and REXANO



http://usark.org/



http://www.rexano.org/



They are trying to pass as if these animals are danger to the public when in fact they are not. A good souce for facts on this can be found here:



http://www.rexano.org//Education.htm



At this time I'm trying to gather more information about how to better fight this Bill. I have emails and calls out to people that I hope can better inform us on how to be most effective and give advice on best proceed from here. I'm also hoping to write up or find a preformed letter that can be emailed so all that would need to be done is print it out, sign, and mail it. I think more people would be inclined to send a letter if they didn't have to write one from scratch.



Please feel free to contact me with ideas or if you want to help. The worst thing we can do is to do nothing.



David Means

540-219-5792

540-829-9846

dvmeans@hotmail.com

I think the first step is to track the bill and see if it gets out of committee. Until then, I'm not sure if letters and calls are meaningful- unless your representative is on the committee. So, the first step is to find out the committee and the members names. Then we can contact the right people.

BTW, the way this is written, my cat would also be illegal since it is a leopard cross from five generations ago.

Yes, I wouldn't LEGALLY be able to breed boas.

I don't know the first thing about this kind of thing, but tell me what to do and I'll do it. A petition does sound like a good idea. If they see just how many people in Virginia this will affect, they might think twice about it. We could get one started on change.org and also an actual printed petition to take around to shows and pet stores.

I posted a link in Virginia Laws. Just hoping anyone who visits might check it out.

Don wrote:

BTW, the way this is written, my cat would also be illegal since it is a leopard cross from five generations ago.

Don, I think your bengal cat would be ok as these are domestic cat x Asian leopard cat (Prionailurus bengalensis) hybrids. To my knowledge, a domestic cat x leopard (Panthera pardus) hybrid does not exist.

I think it would still count as an exotic. Itsn't it banning everything except domestic cats (not including hybrids) in the feline family?

This is the proposed bill text pertaining to cats:

"(2) Family Felidae: lions (Panthera leo), tigers (Panthera tigris), leopards (Panthera pardus), clouded leopards (Neofelis nebulosa), snow leopards (Panthera uncia), jaguars (Panthera onca), cheetahs (Acinonyx jubatus), cougars/pumas/mountain lions (Puma concolor), including hybrids thereof."

The genus Prionailurus is not mentioned.

When I read this I saw "leopards" with no qualifications. Yes, bengals are a cross of an Asian Leopard and a domestic cat.

Not sure if I did the link correctly. But Animal Jungle has a link on their FB page to contact officials. Only takes a minute...check it out.


https://www.facebook.com/pages/Animal-Jungle/134683824802?ref=ts

The bill has been sent to the Senate Agriculture, Conservation and Natural Resources Committee. The members of the Committee are: Hanger (Chairman), Watkins, Puckett, Ruff, Blevins, Obenshain, McEachin, Petersen, Northam, Stuart, Marsden, Stanley, Black, Miller, J.C., Ebbin

If your Senator is on the committee, you might want to contact them.

im confused about all this does this mean we can own ballpythons at all please let me know the details

i ment cant sorry

It does not at this time ban Ball Pythons. However, as has been demonstrated by our government again and again, if we allow them to restrict the rights of a few individuals they will continue to incrementally expand their grasp. This law may not now include ball pythons, but it could be amended to include them.

It does not at this time ban Ball Pythons. However, as has been demonstrated by our government again and again, if we allow them to restrict the rights of a few individuals they will continue to incrementally expand their grasp. This law may not now include ball pythons, but it could be amended to include them.

well said don. the federal government has a long history of starting with the cases that offend the majority and working their way up to the issues that include the majority. unfortunately, we happen to be in the minority on this issue and the "majority" is an uninformed weakling public that "needs" to be led. hopefully one day the feds will understand leading does not include fear and restriction.

very well said indeed

TT~TT this makes me sad. how can they dictate what we can and connot have as a loving part of our own family? i might not have many snakes but i plan to get more and my ideal pets non reptilian is a clouded leopard hybrid and a grey wolf hybrid. i mean last time i checked this was a democracy?? or am i mistaken? i find it insulting and unfair that they would punish those who know how to take care of and indeed to care for their animals correctly. that we should be penalized for those who are unable to care for sed animals causing them to be a nuisance.

http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?121+ful+SB477

This affects all of us in Virginia. Please write to your representatives.

This law must be stopped. Hopefully it will die in committee.

i just got an update that any opposition needs to be sent to district18@senate.virginia.gov they are only accepting opposition until 5:00 pm today apparently. get on it va herps!

Virginia SB477 isn't on the docket for public hearing this week and will NOT be heard tomorrow (Jan. 19, 2012). It may be heard as early as next week. We will have the opportunity to testify to oppose this Bill at the hearing in front of the committee. Each person will have a small amount of time to speak. Here is a link for tips for testifying: http://legis.virginia.gov/1_cit_guide/tips_testify.html



I plan on attending this hearing and speaking in opposition to this Bill and hope many of you can join me. For those of you that can't attend the hearing, I'd be happy to hand deliver a letter on your behalf. Letters should have your hand signed signature on them to be most effective. Letters should be respectful. Be sure to include that you are opposed to SB477.



I would be happy to offer a ride to anyone that wants to meet at my house in Culpeper. We need as many people to show up at this hearing as possible. We also need a lot of letters. Get your family and friends involved in sending letters. Even if you are not a Virginia resident send letters telling how this bill will affect you.



It would be great if someone could post a pre-written letter a person could just fill in their name and print/email.



Please feel free to contact me at:

David Means

540-829-9846

540-219-5792

dvmeans@hotmail.com

can u pm an address for me to send a signed letter. i'll work on a letter for signature. thanks.

Email, call or write you senators!
Senator Emmett W. Hanger, Jr. (R) - Senate District 24 district24@senate.virginia.gov (804) 698-7524
Senator John C. Watkins (R) - Senate District 10 district10@senate.virginia.gov (804) 698-7510
Phillip P. Puckett (D) - Senate District 38 (804) 698-7538 district38@senate.virginia.gov
Senator Frank M. Ruff, Jr. (R) - Senate District 15 (804) 698-7515 district15@senate.virginia.gov
Senator Harry B. Blevins (R) - Senate District 14 (804) 698-7514 district14@senate.virginia.gov
Senator Mark D. Obenshain (R) - Senate District 26 (804) 698-7526 district26@senate.virginia.gov
Senator A. Donald McEachin (D) - Senate District 9 (804) 698-7509 district09@senate.virginia.gov
Senator J. Chapman Petersen (D) - Senate District 34 (804) 698-7534 district34@senate.virginia.gov
Senator Ralph S. Northam (D) - Senate District 6 (804) 698-7506 district06@senate.virginia.gov
Senator Richard H. Stuart (R) - Senate District 28 (804) 698-7528 district28@senate.virginia.gov
Senator David W. Marsden (D) - Senate District 37 (804) 698-7537 district37@senate.virginia.gov
Senator William M. Stanley, Jr. (R) - Senate District 20 (804) 698-7520 district20@senate.virginia.gov
Senator Richard H. Black (R) - Senate District 13 (804) 698-7513 district13@senate.virginia.gov
Senator John C. Miller (D) - Senate District 1 (804) 698-7501 district01@senate.virginia.gov
Senator Adam P. Ebbin (D) - Senate District 30 (804) 698-7530 district30@senate.virginia.gov

If you call, say, "I want to register an opinion on SB 477." The intern or whomever is answering (it won't be the senator) will respond, and you simply say, "Please tell the senator to vote no. This bill will negatively affect my family (or your job if that applies to you!)"

EVERYONE must speak up! Don't leave it to someone else! The more support we have, the better chance we have at fighting this!!!!

i am posting the letter i plan on sending. feel free to use it at your discretion. and please for the sake of your hobby send at least one. thanks.

Dear Elected Officials of the Virginia Senate,

I am writing this letter to show my opposition to Va Bill SB477. This bill if passed would effect my rights as an American and Virginian. The passing of this bill would adversely effect thousands of my fellow Virginians and potentially hundreds of thousands if it were to be expanded to include all exotic species. The passing of SB477 has the ability to destroy a large and thriving economic market that includes all those who own pets of any kind.
For this reason I strongly oppose the bassing of SB477.
I am a an American, a Virginian, an Exotics keeper and I Vote.

Thank You,


Maybe not the best letter but it's to the point. thanks guys.

on the advice of someone smarter or more well informed than i. i am going to add a sentence that states that these animals pose little or no danger to the public as well as their keepers. thanks.

Moving to the newly titled "Virginia Law, Legislation, and SB 477 Information" forum. As suggested, I agree this would be a great place to gather all this info so it doesn't get lost.

If I read this right if you own the snakes listed you have to do this.....

6. Shall register with, and pay a registration fee to, the Department by September 1, 2012, and annually thereafter, indicating the number of animals of each dangerous wild animal species in his possession, and showing proof of liability insurance in an amount of not less than $100,000, with a deductible of not more than $250, for each occurrence of property damage, bodily injury, or death caused by any dangerous wild animal possessed by the person;

Where's the liability insurance for pit bulls or dogs in general, they kill or injury more people then pet snakes. And where would you get this insurance?

I'll be on Morelia Python Radio tonight a 10pm to talk about proposed Exotic Animal ban in Virginia-SB477. Please tune in to see what you can do to help.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/moreliapythonradio/2012/01/21/morelia-minutes-sb477--virginia-ban-on-exotic-animals


David Means
540-829-9846
540-219-5792
dvmeans@hotmail.com

Reading all of the posts on the Internet and the anger that is coming from reptile owners is not helping the cause. I would urge anyone who is speaking to their elected officials to do so in a professional calm reasonable manner. Angry, abusive and profane diatribes do nothing to make the reptile community look responsible.

I agree 100%

definitely, any responses need to be made in a respectful manner

Don wrote:

Reading all of the posts on the Internet and the anger that is coming from reptile owners is not helping the cause. I would urge anyone who is speaking to their elected officials to do so in a professional calm reasonable manner. Angry, abusive and profane diatribes do nothing to make the reptile community look responsible.

I could not agree more. Anger will only embolden the opposition. Professionalism and facts will prevail. I already know that one member of the subcommittee will be voting this down. Sen. Black I have received an email from his office stating that he will be voting this down.

David_Means wrote:

I'll be on Morelia Python Radio tonight a 10pm to talk about proposed Exotic Animal ban in Virginia-SB477. Please tune in to see what you can do to help.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/moreliapythonradio/2012/01/21/morelia-minutes-sb477--virginia-ban-on-exotic-animals


David Means
540-829-9846
540-219-5792
dvmeans@hotmail.com

If anyone wants to call in please feel free.
347-215-7359

I agree with you, Don. Unfortunately emotions usually come before logic! Especially when so many people are having their livelihoods taken away from them. Unfortunately the public always picks up on the bad before the good.

I am pretty furious about this, even though I do not know the specific reptiles that will be banned. Is there anyway for me to get the list of what is being banned?

Tertius wrote:

I am pretty furious about this, even though I do not know the specific reptiles that will be banned. Is there anyway for me to get the list of what is being banned?

full list included in bill: http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?121+ful+SB477

Thank you, Don! That is a very helpful link.

I didn't know boa constrictors were included! Does that mean the red tail boa is illegal now???