What about a hots section?

leftoflarry wrote:

Anyone who thinks that a venomous reptile is a pet, needs to reconsider what a pet is.

That is why I think a venomous classified section would send the wrong message on this otherwise pet oriented website. Regardless of what we call our animals the objective is to keep potentially dangerous animals out of inexperienced hands. The last thing this hobby needs is a negative incident to further fuel restrictive legislation.

Alex, thanks for the information.

Well yes I agree, especially in regards to a public forum. I want this more to be a resource for those of us who own hots already.

Although there may not be criminal liability, that doesn't mean that a civil suit can not be filed. I also think the greater concern for me is the publicity that can result. Just like the Craigslist case cited, it was publicity that forced the change not legal action.

Don wrote:

Although there may not be criminal liability, that doesn't mean that a civil suit can not be filed.

Correct Don, but that's true with almost anything, frivolous civil suits are a dime a dozen, thanks to our legal system.

Negative publicity can be bad, but the change was never forced, it was voluntary, and that was my point. Craigslist was a conduit for people to blatantly break the law, but the site owner was not responsible, nor ever forced to do anything about it.

It's not my site, but in my humble opinion, I think the fear of bad publicity is overblown. This is our hobby, and we're not breaking the law.

The last thing this hobby needs at this time is *any* negative publicity.

this is a herp site and last time i checked snakes were herps

I just came across this and thought I'd post as evidence that HSUS really does target state senators to push their exotic animal bans. It's not idle speculation. They use exotic scares as the platform to push their anti-exotic legislation through.

Quote :

According to State Senator Michael Roberson, "The Humane Society contacted me. They wanted to see this kind of legislation in Nevada based on what happened in Ohio last year when you had 50 or so wild animals intentionally set free."

http://www.ktnv.com/news/local/162664626.html

Edit: In hindsight, I don't mean to rile this discussion up again (unless it's wanted) but I did want to post that quote since I do feel its important for people to realize that it does actually happen (in some cases, even goldfish and hamsters are targeted).

I dunno if cotton mouths are considered as "hot" or not but I've been handling them ever since I was about 13... Stumpy Lake is pretty much in my backyard so they are common to find in the summer. Instead of letting the neighbors kill them, I'd go over and catch them and relocate them away from the houses. I'd like to keep a baby one someday, so it'd be nice to have people to discuss that with. I don't really like the age limit thing though, I only turn 20 next month >.<

In my opinion, it's risky to go out and buy a huge retic or anaconda, but people still do that. Not as dangerous as venomous snakes, but there's always a risk. If the proper warnings are posted, I definitely don't think the site can be held liable for any accidents that could happen. You get a snake that can kill you, that's YOUR risk you're willing to take. And if something bad happens, it's no one's fault but your own.

Unfortunately, there will always be those close-minded "snake haters" out there. Really nothing we can do to change those people's minds /:

Guess I joined this discussion a little late. Guess it goes without saying, I indorse a venomous forum.

ChuckHurd wrote:

Guess I joined this discussion a little late. Guess it goes without saying, I indorse a venomous forum.

and I believe you found it.

leftoflarry wrote:

Anyone who thinks that a venomous reptile is a pet, needs to reconsider what a pet is.

I agree, the comments of the type: "-Do you keep your cobra in a cage? -Well yes; -Then it's a pet" are so common and even come from educated people, true testimony. A pet is by definition a domestic animal you can pet, that is "pettable". Can we consider from this point a cobra whose mouth had been shut and/or venom glands removed a "pet" because it became "pettable"?! It's a big debate that shouln't exist to my opinion (first because I'm opposed to venomoids). I think it all started when people accepted to call reptiles "NAC" i.e. in french "Nouveaux Animaux de Compagnie", or simply "pets". Reptiles are wild animals, not pets, even those that are "pettable", like corn snakes, and it created a lot of confusion in peoples minds. To some people because you can "pet" a gecko you can also pet a monitor. But we know it's not true, it's due to anthropomorphism. No reptile should be called a pet, that was a big mistake to my opinion. There should only be a distinction of dangerousness in all minds when it comes to reptiles, because calling a corn a pet sends the wrong message if you follow me. Syllogism: A corn is a snake. Second syllogism: A corn is "pettable". Conclusion: All snakes are pettable, so "pets". Absolutely wrong of course and dangerous statement.

jw wrote:

That is why I think a venomous classified section would send the wrong message on this otherwise pet oriented website. Regardless of what we call our animals the objective is to keep potentially dangerous animals out of inexperienced hands. The last thing this hobby needs is a negative incident to further fuel restrictive legislation.

I sense your worry jw, its justified. Because some wild animals are considered as "pets", including a "venomous classified section" would mean they're also "pets". But I also think inexperienced hands don't need this website to commit something stupid and create an impact on the reptile community. There is Facebook for that for example, on the contrary I think educating people on websites such as Vaherp with a venomous classified section would be a good idea, if it is well done, if it send the right message. Of course moderators would play an important role. But if it is wel done I really think it would benefit to us all, and especially to start with neophytes. I think in spite of Facebook influence there are still a lot of people out there who still consult websites such as Vaherp, before buying a reptile for example. I don't want to encourage neophytes to buy a cobra or any other potentially dangerous reptile, my point is with the abundance of sites that offer such options, there are still many buyers out there and they need to be informed. But of course the decision to take is to be done by the administrators, what I mean is if there is a hot section it should be done in a way that shouldn't encourage reckless behavior but at the same time inform well serious people who consider to buy venomous animals. Because it's a big business and it will keep on existing with or without Vaherp and I think it should, it would be positive but it's just my opinion. Not wanting a venomous classified section because people think it would send the wrong message is wanting to stay underground but its a little late for that. There has been a lot of publicity and some very bad publicity so I understand the frustration of keepers who just want silence, I also share this frustration but it's too late for wanting it to stay underground and not being talked about so because of that it's just one more reason to talk about it but in the right way always, of course. Because either we want it or not, others will speak and send their votes, so we also need to send ours to make the balance incline in our direction. In 30 years I still want to be able to keep any reptile I want and it would be even more frustrating that I couldn't because I didn't speak up with other keepers years before, because of a fear I had and wanted to mute it. I guess I went in another debate but jw also evoked the restrictive legislation. I just don't think shutting it off would be the right call even though I completely share jw's frustration. But I might be wrong, of course, just my opinion.

leftoflarry wrote:

Well yes I agree, especially in regards to a public forum. I want this more to be a resource for those of us who own hots already.

I agree with you, it should work more as a resource. It's a serious way to come up with. Right information given and shared with serious venomous keepers. Just a suggestion. And very strict moderation to discourage anything illegal and reckless behavior of course, to not again add a negative impact on the reptile community.

Silvia Hurd wrote:

I think educating people on websites such as Vaherp with a venomous classified section would be a good idea, if it is well done, if it send the right message.

I think the idea was whether to have a "classifieds section" as in "here is what I have for sale" vs. a "Hot Section" where the above mentioned ideas can be explored and people can get educated. We decided to go with the latter, which is a Hot section where venomous owners can exchange ideas and educate the general public, without turning it into a classified section. All the moderators and the owner of VAHERPS decided we don't want to be a hub for selling venomous reptiles.

There are like 3 hot keepers on the site….probably won’t ever become a huge hub to distribute. Just a thought. Haha

leftoflarry wrote:

Silvia Hurd wrote:

I think educating people on websites such as Vaherp with a venomous classified section would be a good idea, if it is well done, if it send the right message.

I think the idea was whether to have a "classifieds section" as in "here is what I have for sale" vs. a "Hot Section" where the above mentioned ideas can be explored and people can get educated. We decided to go with the latter, which is a Hot section where venomous owners can exchange ideas and educate the general public, without turning it into a classified section. All the moderators and the owner of VAHERPS decided we don't want to be a hub for selling venomous reptiles.

Oh god I definitely have a problem when it comes to express myself in english. My fault, I mixed up "Classified section" with "Hot section". If the hot section is just for educational purpose I'm good with that, that would be great, didn't mean a section "for sale", thanks for correcting me

Silvia Hurd wrote:

Oh god I definitely have a problem when it comes to express myself in english. My fault, I mixed up "Classified section" with "Hot section". If the hot section is just for educational purpose I'm good with that, that would be great, didn't mean a section "for sale", thanks for correcting me

no problem. Just trying to clarify. we agree.

Just to chime in a bit...

I came across this HOT forum and a few other HOT pics and info only recently. I had always heard about them here and there and know little about handling and husbandry. Also to put it out there I do not own any hots and have no plans on getting one now or anytime anywhere in the future.

Now as for the HOT section, as an outsider I love it, through the discussions and a few questions I have asked I have learned a ton. I love getting new info on my addiction, which is herps of all varieties...

Personally I think if its kept as info and explanations I think its a great tool to use to educate and inform, and I honestly would rather have a section here about it, with people who either have them, or have learned from experiences with them informing me instead of some website where anyone could have posted what they think.
Granted yes even here it is what one handler thinks compared to another, but this website ends up being my final decision. Online you can go to 5 different websites and get 5 different answers. I end up going to this website and using this as my tie break.

Having a HOT section I believe is a good thing, as long as it is maintained properly as everyone before have stated.

Just my opinion...

TheRealYoda34 wrote:

Having a HOT section I believe is a good thing, as long as it is maintained properly as everyone before have stated.

Just my opinion...

which is why we have one.